Supplements

[uk dude 0]

In the UK I mainly bought ingredients from an online shop and mixed my own stuff, adding flavoring powder for variety.

The preparations I made were pretty standard.

* 1hr before workout (variable amounts of whey plus low GI carbs)

* immediately before workout (essential amino acids, caffeine or arginine but not both - this tastes superbad)

* post workout (0.4g/kg hydrolyzed whey, 10g essential amino acids, 0.8g/kg waxy maize starch, 5g creatine, plus vitamin C, E and selenium tablets)

* meal replacement (40g tapered protein blend plus low GI carbs)

* bedtime (40g tapered protein mix including micellar casein, plus ZMA tablets)

I'm going to drop the arginine because the taste is too bad (even worse than the EAAs) and start putting L-glutamine in everything (which I used to do, but I ran out of the stuff).

I also take Animal Pak multivitamins.

I bought some stuff over here, but it's not going to last forever.

So my questions are

* Does my supplementation look OK (Overkill? Something I should be using that I am not? Stuff I'm using wrongly? What do you use?)

* Which brands that are available over here are supposed to be the best (e.g. this 'Fast' stuff, which is everywhere, even supermarkets)

* Which are the best online and actual shops that people use

* What products available over here might suit my needs

I look forward to hearing any thoughts you might have!

Cheers,

James

[gmaster 303]

Hi james!

A few things that i noticed:

- First of all, you use an awful amount of supplements..

- You can replace the 1h before workout with a protein-rich meal

- Your after workout mix is quite good, but considering you are also taking animal pak, you get a huge amount of vitamins, so i would consider leaving some out, for instance, take the animal pak post workout instead of C and E and selenium

- Same thing, meal replacement again, i'd suggest whole food as much as possible

I myself use and suggest Dorian Yates' brand, it is the most complex supplement i have seen and tasted

The best online shop is fitness.ee and its actual shop is in Kopli

I suggest a meal plan created specially for you, it had the best effect on me, i ate a lot of supplements before, but when i switched to a good meal plan, my results got better than before.

So you should count too much on supplements, they are good, but i think it is best when you eat more whole food. I bet u don't get enough fats

[uk dude 0]

Hey!

Yeah, I do prefer actual meals. I switched to working out in the morning and I'm not very good at eating a lot at that time, so I drink a shake. If I work out in the evening I'd have a meal maybe 2-3hrs before. Any closer than that to the workout and I start to feel a bit ill after squats.

I'll switch to using Animal Pak immediately post workout. Good idea. The Dorian stuff has got quite a reputation, I'll try it.

My meal plan is not currently nailed down much. I eat 4-6 meals per day, as and when I feel hungry. Approx 40g protein with simple carbs in the morning, complex carbs until the evening and then with just vegetables in the evening.

I don't know how many kcals I get but I'd guess around 2300. I weigh 77kg, have 14% body fat and am 180cm tall by the way. My job is sitting at a computer all day, the gym is my only real exercise.

I have previously been a religious dietary composition freak and used isocaloric, 40/40/20 and Dan Duchaine's Body Opus (variously known as Pasquale's 'Anabolic Diet', or ketogenic diet).

My body seems to like fat a whole lot more than carbs (which make me feel bloated). The ketogenic diet was marvellous for a month, but I got a bit worried about longer term health effects. Perhaps you have a view on this?

When I'm in proper diet mode I take 30ml of flax or cod liver oil per day too.

Hi james!

A few things that i noticed:

- First of all, you use an awful amount of supplements..

- You can replace the 1h before workout with a protein-rich meal

- Your after workout mix is quite good, but considering you are also taking animal pak, you get a huge amount of vitamins, so i would consider leaving some out, for instance, take the animal pak post workout instead of C and E and selenium

- Same thing, meal replacement again, i'd suggest whole food as much as possible

I myself use and suggest Dorian Yates' brand, it is the most complex supplement i have seen and tasted

The best online shop is fitness.ee and its actual shop is in Kopli

I suggest a meal plan created specially for you, it had the best effect on me, i ate a lot of supplements before, but when i switched to a good meal plan, my results got better than before.

So you should count too much on supplements, they are good, but i think it is best when you eat more whole food. I bet u don't get enough fats

Muudetud Mai 15, 2008 kasutaja uk dude poolt

[gmaster 303]

Hi, James

I tried a low carb, higher fat diet for 3 months and lost 10kg, and my health got better, so i wouldn't worry.

I think in the evening you should add some meat and olive oil to your vegetables

If you dont eat 2 proper fish meals a week, i suggest you use omega3, its only good for you

P.S. does animal pak do any good for you? because if you cant tell the difference, drop it, buy some chicken meat instead

Muudetud Mai 15, 2008 kasutaja gmaster poolt

[uk dude 0]

Oh yes, I always have meat or fish with every meal - it's just that I drop the carbs in the evening and just have vegetables with it.

I probably eat fish once a week. I used to eat masses of tuna but then my trainer at the time warned me to cut down because of the heavy metals.

You're right, I need olive oil. Good fats, easy kcal, healthy stuff, all good!

I've been lazy with the fish oil recently. Time to get back on track with that.

Oh, and I can believe it about your health and fewer carbs. My body reacts badly to a lot of carbs - as well as the bloating I get allergy type symptoms and feel lethargic.

Muudetud Mai 15, 2008 kasutaja uk dude poolt

[gmaster 303]

How about the pak? do you feel the difference?

Have you tried estonian milk products like kodujuust (cottage cheese) and kohupiim (similar, but sweet, with different flavors), i call those the best meal replacements.

[uk dude 0]

When I started to take Animal Pak I remember noticing a real difference in recovery. I've not stopped taking it since then, so I've kind of forgotten what I'd feel like without them!

Haha, yes I'm trying all these weird and wonderful Estonian foodstuffs. Both of those cheeses are fine. Kodujuust good for bedtime.

Have you tried Juku Juust? It's cheese for kids but it's composition is 40% protein and only 10% fat. I eat lots of it.

Muudetud Mai 15, 2008 kasutaja uk dude poolt

[gmaster 303]

Yeah, juku is great, but hard to find.

Anyway, animal pak cant be sold in Estonia any more, so i suggest trying something else,

maybe some creatine combo, cell-tech maybe?

[uk dude 0]

You can find Juku in the central market and some supermarkets (I think Prisma sell it, maybe Selver too).

Why did Animal Pak get banned? Animal Stak got banned in the UK (prohormones) but I don't see any controversial ingredients in the Pak..

[gmaster 303]

There are really strict policies about those kinds of things, if a supplement's vitamin amount exceed some level, its considered a drug and can only be sold at a pharmacy.

Actually i think you progress is not stopped by lack of supplements, i think the biggest problem is, whether your training plan is ok or not..

(because at you weight and height, its totally possible to progress very fast even without any supplements)

Muudetud Mai 15, 2008 kasutaja gmaster poolt

[Hellboy 0]

Hi

I noticed that your daily caloric intake is a bit low(but maybe your on a diet) although I could be wrong, because of all these supplements that you take in and your job does not take a lot of energy. Do you have progress in mass and strenght, if not there's your reason. Sry if your diet is ok and your progress is the way you want it, just thought that you might have some problems with your progress

[gmaster 303]

Hellboy has an excellent point there, i missed that one

Perhaps you should have a personal meal plan created instead of making one yourself, worked for me

[uk dude 0]

I do have gains right now, and that's why I'm reckoning I have enough.

Mind you, I did drop some weight and strength before starting to work out in Estonia as I took a month off (too much to do with regard to moving countries, wrapping UK life up etc - I was exhausted all the time and wasn't eating right either). [Edit: So I'm probably supercompensating or something, which means I can't really tell what the longer term is going to be like]

I've already improved on where I left off in some areas though, and in the others I'm getting back into shape.

In my month off I lost something like 4kg (yeah I *really* didn't eat properly, AND had many leaving parties..), I've gained approx 3kg of that back now.

Muudetud Mai 15, 2008 kasutaja uk dude poolt

[uk dude 0]

Who does these personal meal plans then?

Is it anything different from calculating your basic metabolic rate, daily energy expenditure etc, adding on 500kcal per day and then deciding on a macronutrient breakdown and tracking against the targets every day? This is what I do when I'm being more disciplined.

I'll happily give it a shot if you can provide me with some more detail of your experience.

[gmaster 303]

Our top BBers do them: Kiivikas, Kalmus, Ader and Morozov

Yeah, its pretty much what you just explained, only they add what they have learned from their own experience and change the plan according to your needs if it needs adjustments.

P.S. what your goal? We know what you do, but not what you are trying to accomplish.

[uk dude 0]

Well any opportunity to learn from those guys is a must, so sign me up.

How do I make this happen? Are these guys also trainers?

[gmaster 303]

Yes, they're all trainers

http://www.fitness.ee/main.php?main=toorii...mp;bot=bot.lime this is the information form you have to fill and the plan will be sent o nyour e-mail

[uk dude 0]

OK thanks for the link. It looks like I need to get my Estonian dictionary out (my girlfriend!).

[AlanBStard 126]

There are really strict policies about those kinds of things, if a supplement's vitamin amount exceed some level, its considered a drug and can only be sold at a pharmacy.

Oh yeah, and they're really nice about it, too. The upper limit for vitamin D is 1/50 of the amount you naturally produce during a sunny summer day. I bet the State Agency of Medicines is heavyily sponsored by cancer medication manufacturers